Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Ok , my 10 yo girl (about 60 lbs wet ) yes tiny ,is wanting to go deer hunting .
There is a youth weekend in Dec so want to get her ready for that .
She has not shot a centerfire before so this weekend will be the first for her .
I have a rem 7400 .270 which is the smallest / lightest I have except a ruger .9mm carbine .
The max distance shot would be 100 yards most likely a 75 + or - shot where we will be going , she will be at the top of a slight hill with the deer going across at the bottom , never see any bucks but over ran with does .
7400 scoped , .9mm open sites .
So the question is , which gun should I let her use ,if I go with the .270 what grain bullet and what powder and grain charge would be best for her to keep from beating her to death yet a clean kill on a deer ? I can have dad load up just about any combo , yes he stocked up long time ago .

next question is , for her what would be a better or best cal. rifle for future use .Any suggestions on make , model and cal. would be appreciated .I prefer bolt action for her I think to reduce weight and to reinforce shot placement over multi shot .
Thanks for any suggestions.


the 7400 is realy too heavy for her but will have a rest set up for her to shoot from .

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Seriously, how many shots are you expecting her to make?

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

For those ranges a Win 94 in .30-30 is good. If she is going to want to take longer shots, you might consider .243 in a youth model or other lightweight gun.

Those are two very common, light recoiling rounds that are still pretty effective.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

This weekend and next , several at the range to make sure she can handle the gun and place a effective shot .If I'm not sure she can do both then she will wait till next year .I don't want a wounded animal .
Yes , 1 shot maybe 2 over the 2 day shoot but until then several shots to practice.
with a .22 she is fine , but big difference between that and a .270 , I want her to shoot enough if possible to be use to the recoil and not flinch in fear of the recoil to follow.
Yes this is short notice to take her , but she expressed the interest so I want to reinforce it . But I don't want to turn her off with a gun that is realy too much for her .

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

A lightweight .270 will beat the crap out of her.

.243 is a good idea, devastating to thin-skinned animals, lots of quality bullet choices available.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

I think the win 94 might be on the heavy side as well , not much difference in it and the 7400 .
We have brass and dies for the 243 and 22/250 but no gun so either of those are a possibility . Any suggestions on a model ?

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Guns shot from the bench kick much harder while standing as the body is locked and cant absorb recoil. I can shoot a hot loaded 45/70 20 or 30 times off hand but three from the bench beats me half to death. Anyone who has sighted in a 12 guage slug gun can sympathize. Let her shoot it off hand a couple times at a close range target like a milk jug filled with water at 30 yards. Use the lightest bullets available, probably 120 grains. I assume she will be taking the deer off a rest, one shot she wont feel it.

For the future, I recommend a 243. In some states you can legally use a 223, and they are effective on small deer with the winchester 64 grain power points. I consider them expert guns not kid guns unless your kid can place the bullet very well. A 223 shot through the lungs of a 120 pound doe at 25 yards is a quick kill. In my opinion, a kid ought to be able to handle a 243 before you take them hunting though. Having a gut shot deer bleating will not turn your 9 year old daughter into a avid hunter. I am approaching this with caution with my own 8 year old daughter.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

.243 :ok::bear_thumb:

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

I second the .243 youth or maybe a .410 youth shotgun.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Remington model 700 youth in 243 is a good choice.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

As for models, teh usual suspects are winchester 70, remington 700, Ruger 77. I will tell you the last rifle I bought was a Savage and I am very pleased. The accutrigger is great if a little wierd looking, and savages are increasingly one of the most accurate out of the box rifles out there. I think its a combination of good barrels and the way they headspace them with a lock nut instead of crush threading the barrel into the action.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

AR-15: 223, very low recoil. Scoped or peep.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

That's what I was thinking. At 75m a red dot would make it point and click. Then she would have her own SHTF rifle.

My girls, (14 and 12), still draw crowds, (and probably sell 30 rifles), when they field strip AK's at the gunshow. Even though it seems like half the neighborhood comes by with bowls in their hands when it's deer chili night, Daddy's still the only one who kills Bambi so count your stars.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

I'm neither a parent nor a reloader so I may be off base in finding it strange that you would have your child attempt to kill a deer with a firearm she has never handled before regardless of caliber.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

My 20" 94 weighs 6-1/4#.

According to Chuck Hawks, the 7400 is 7-1/4#.

According to various manufacturers websites, the youth/mountain/ultralights in .243 are all between 6-1/2 and 6-5/8#.

The 94 is about the lightest rifle you can get for deer.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Thanks, About, Misry, and SLV...Let me amend my earlier post.

Though not optimum, many folks shoot deer with the 223. If your state will allow it, that might be an option worth considering.

I do like the idea of the AR-15 (1:9 twist) loaded with a heavier bullet (70gr Speer soft point). With an M4 barrel, retractable stock, it should be very easy to practice with, carry, and shoot. Recoil would be much more manageable for a 10 year old girl.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Lever action .44 mag w/ a scope and a slip on recoil pad.
Ruger .44 semi auto w/ a scope and slip on recoil pad.
AR15 flat top w/ scope and 77 grain hollow point bullets.

Reload .270 110 grain hollow point at say 2700 fps.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

When I teach hunter safety, I advise the parents to buy a gun that suits their child. Too often, they try to "make do" with something they already have. The consequences can be quite adverse, as the choice they make can ultimately decide whether or not that kid will end up taking up hunting or not. I tend to steer them toward the Rossi single-shot Youth Models, as they come with a myriad of choices for caliber selection. They even offer a tri-barrel set-up with 20 guage, .22 rimfire and .243. Total cost? About $250-$300 depending on your retailer. That gets them a multi-functional system that can be used to parlay their interests into other hunting endeavors such as plinking, small game hunting, and upland bird hunting. Being a single-shot, it teaches them to hit what they are aiming at too. (read: marksmanship). It also is then "their firearm", and that goes a long way with their psyche, as they feel a greater sense of responsibility as they must properly care for it (a whole different discussion topic). That $250-$300 is the best insurance you can ever get...trust me. That gun can then also be handed down to younger siblings when he/she outgrows it and can get them into the sport as well (if not a friend, other family member or even a neighbor kid). Not to toot my own horn, but I have educated over 1200 kids and adults, and have found that the retention rate is much higher if the kids are given their "own stuff" (even if done frugally) rather than something that doesn't fit them properly, as that first impression is generally a lasting one. This goes for clothing too. If they freeze their butts off due to improperly fit clothing or lack of a comfortable blind, it can really turn them off to the sport. PLEASE TAKE WHAT I AM SAYING INTO CONSIDERATION. I want your kid to be begging you to go out with you again, as they are the future, and the same way you invest in PM's, you need to invest in their education and hunting experiences...anything else would be a travesty.

Warmest Regards,
Jeff

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

I have a fifteen year-old daughter, and this year I bought her a Ruger Frontier 77 Mark II in .308 Winchester and topped it with a 1.5-5X Leupold VX-3 to use as a deer rifle. I load it down to about .243 Win levels for her. It is zeroed at 100 yards, as that is about the longest shot she will get to take.

Personally, my daughter was not ready, mentally or physically, for deer hunting at age 10. She could barely handle zeroing a .22; a centerfire rifle was out of the question. I also believe my daughter was not focused enough to handle the mental demands of deer hunting at age 10. At 15, I think she is almost there.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

In GA, any centerfire caliber is legal. A good point was made about the 70 gr softpoint. Have you seen the youtubes of the young girl field stripping an AR and reassembling in about a minute? Get them trained early.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

YMMV......

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

A) She asked.
B) They have a couple of weeks to get ready.
C) There are quite a few lessons to be learned from a first hunt. Including, if necessary, tracking a wounded animal and why we do.
D) I took my first deer, (and his spirit), when I was 9 with a Thompson .50 I built from a kit.

My daughters know I leave at 2:AM and come back around 10 with a deer we then need to dress. They have no interest in setting in the woods waiting for a deer, that's why I think "still" is so lucky. They *are*, however, fascinated by the transformation from carcass to table. :s1:

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

My 10 year old daughter killed her first deer this year with my AR-15 in 6.8mm which is 270 cal. with a 110gr bullet and since it is gas operated it has almost no recoil. Good clean kill. Deer only ran about 30 yards. I highly recommend a gas operated 6.8mm for any youth hunter.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Thanks for all the suggestions and support and thanks for the other posts as well.
One I see mentioned in model but not cal. is a Ruger M77 Mark II in 6mm Rem. Any opinions on the .6mm Rem. ?From what I see online it could be a good choice . I ask as I have found one that may be for sale if they find what they are looking for to replace it .
Again thanks.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

The 6mm Rem is equivalent to the .243 Win. Hard to find ammo for it, but a fine deer rifle caliber.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

I was looking at Chuck Hawks when I said I didn't think there was much dif. in weight of a 94 and the 7400 .The 94 that I saw there was listed at 7.5 lbs, but I see its the weight of it scoped and possibly fully loaded vs the 7400 being unscoped and unloaded . Thanks for making me rethink my post.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

When I was younger, I was ONLY interested in big-bore rifles. The smallest cartridge I owned a gun in was .308, and only because of it's reputation for accuracy and sniping fame.

I still own several "big ones"... all the way up to .50. However, my preferences have shifted during the last few years toward accuracy... instead of sheer kinetic energy. I figure if you hit a man with anything of 17 caliber or greater, he's going to be in a WORLD OF HURT... and you're going to stop moving toward me with whatever coercive intentions you might have had in mind. For hunting, anything 6mm (.243) or larger will bring home the game nearly every time, and .223 will do it most of the time if you know what your doing and have steady aim.

My two favorite rifles are currently chambered in .260 Rem, and .223 Rem. Both rifles are beautifully accurate, miserly on the powder, wonderfully accurate, soft recoiling, marvelously accurate, light-weight for carry a bunch of extra ammo with, astonishingly accurate, non-bruising and non-flinching, and extremely accurate. I love shooting the two of them so much, I barely give my magnums and 7mm+ caliber variants much attention any more when looking through my safe. Seriously...

I think your daughter would most likely appreciate something in between those 2 extremes - something from 5.5mm to 6.5mm diameter, in a non-magnum chambering. I can shoot at targets all afternoon with either rifle, and come home smiling instead of hurting. I can take either rifle hunting (but .260 only for elk), and know I'll be coming home with the meat instead of a bruise on the shoulder and a bruised ego.

Oh... and for rabbits, I LOVE my scoped Ruger 77-22.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

6 hours on the range my shoulder is sore , her spirit is still in it but her ability is still a little short .
Shooting the .270 is too much for her for sure , 4 shots in a 10 inch group at 75 yards .She likes shooting but does not like the .270 , so she spent the rest of the time shooting the .22s
So she will be just my sidekick this year and I will be looking to get her and her older sister the 6mm or .243 to practice with till next season then go from there .
Thanks and if any other suggestions or words of advice come up please post 'em.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

.243 Win. or (my favorite of the 6'es) 6mm Remington will serve her well... Henny Penny has a Ruger in .243 Win. and she loves it... soft recoiling, accurate, and plenty of power for deer. I have a friend who hunts with a .243 Win. every year, and for the last 10 years or so he has NEVER returned home empty handed and has NEVER lost a deer after hitting it. Some of the most accurate bench-rest rifles in existence are 6mm, so you will find PLENTY of support in the way of excellent brass and bullets. For ultimate accuracy, it's hard to beat the 6mm PPC, but also a bit harder to find factory rifles for as compared to the other 2 I've mentioned.

There's another option to consider - but only if you are a handloader and are not interested in a mainstream factory rifle. It's called 6x45, and is basically a .223 Rem. cartridge necked up to 6mm. It's VERY popular in South Africa, kills deer-sized wildlife with boring regularity and lethality, and has the added advantage that it can be chambered in an AR semi-auto without magazine or bolt changes, if that floats your boat. My next bolt gun will be chambered in that round - it looks like a winner.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Good plan. I'm personally not that keen on the .243. I've seen accurate and so-so rifles in this caliber. For some reason it seems hard to get a consistently good one. I like the lighter .257 and 6.5mm a lot better.

257 Roberts or 6.5 x 55 Mauser or .260 Rem is where I would look.

.243 Win is 308 necked down to 6mm, .260 is 308 necked down to 6.5mm, and for a handloader there are tons of great 6.5 mm bullets out there.

hornady's manual has reduced loads in several calibers for this purpose as well.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

I'd say .243, and Savage has the best value. Tikka costs a little more, but is a higher quality and lacks the integrated trigger safety.

NOT a .30-30 - I started on one at 13 and the noise/recoil made me dread shooting it.

To further tone down the recoil consider a beautiful Browning BAR. Or just get an AR - great accuracy and just enough power to kill a dear with the right bullet.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

I'm a big fan of the rifles based on single shot youth model shotguns. H&R seems to own this market these days. Get her a youth single shot H&R with exposed hammer (best safety in the world) in .243 cal.....mount a scope for sure placement and clean kill. Nothing too powerful....I'm a big fan of Bushnell Banner or similar scopes in 1.5X - 4.5X variable range ....plenty good enough quality scope and the cost is about $75 for mail order. Don't let small objective size fool you into thinking poor light gathering.....remember they are very low power........exit pupil (the size of the hole that lets light exit scope and enter her eye)....exit pupil diameter = objective / magnification power......so even at 4X.....the exit pupil will be will over 7 mm diameter....which is as big as any human pupil eye can dialate - once you get to 7mm exit pupil it can't get any brighter.....also, at 1.5X....great for close up shots and thick woods shots....fast action....nearly like no scope at all.

You can probably get the rifle for $200....add scope and be shooting for under $300. When she outgrows it....perhaps never...as most full grown chicks are youth boy size....sell it and get 80% of initial cost back.....for sure you can find a buyer at $200 on your $300 cost.

I'll try to post an H&R link.


http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/Youth.asp

At the bottom is their "compact" = youth. Looks like MSRP with factory mounted 3X - 9X is $270......I prefer a lower power scope.....but that would work right out of the box.

Notice LOP = Length of Pull = 11.75"....very short.....as a rough check for most folks....have here lat gun against forearm with butt in the crook/beng of elbow.....where her finger falls for comfortable shot...is probably a good length of pull. You can use you cerrent big cun as a model to measure proper LOP for her...but 11.75 is very nice for kids.....

Here are the stats:

Handi-Rifle™ Compact





Model
Handi-Rifle™ Compact

Ammo
243 Rem. w/ scope(SBS-Y43)

243 Win. (SB2-Y43) Order Online From Gallery of Guns

7mm/08 (SB2-Y08) Order Online From Gallery of Guns


Stock
American hardwood Monte Carlo pistol grip stock with walnut finish, ventilated recoil pad, sling swivel studs.

Barrel
22"

Sights
Scope mount rail and hammer extension; SBS-Y43 comes with 3-9x32 scope, factory-mounted and bore-sighted.

Length
36-7/8"

Length of Pull
11-3/4"

Weight
6-3/4 lbs.

Owner's Manual
Download Owner's Manual


(Specifications subject to change without notice)

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

Picture of H&R Compact (youth) single shot rifle.

Most kids do very well starting out on a 20 ga single shot....this is an extension of that idea into a low cost - high quality little rifle

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

7MM-08 Remington mountain rifle with a Tasco 3*9 TV view.

The setup has light recoil, light self pointing rifle, wide a view scope. The 7MM08 has a variety of bullets it is effective with from 120 to 175 grain. The velocity limiting factor is the case capacity of the 308 (necked down). With newer powders even the case capacity limiting factor is less of an issue if you need to hop up the rouund.

Re: Question for the reloaders and parents both .
 

The make that H&R in 7mm-08....that is a very flexible cartridge to the handloader....I like .243 if you do not hand load...can just buy the round at the store...to some extent...you can also buy 7mm08.....

If you handload...you can even use standard 308 or 30.06 and just use light bullets and download.....this is what make handloading fantastic. you cna make whatever you want - within some limits.....

I have a 358 Winchester (308 necked up to 35 cal).....great for moose or big bears.....but I can down-load for deer (great woods gun).....I have even made plinking rounds using .357 pistol bullets.....it is basically a 3000 ft-lb energy gun....my plinking loads are down around 1000 ft lbs....it would even kill deer for a kid at that level.

Handloading is the way to go.